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	<title>Comments on: emergent bend</title>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/emergent-bend/#comment-292</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-292</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I meant to address the last comment to Bob, not Ben.

One more note. Bob, you said, &quot;Many Christians interpret Jesus’ words through our 21st century WESTERN eyes and use his words to make exclusive truth claims.&quot;

To that I&#039;d like to paraphrase Mr. Zacharias&#039;s response to a similar objection. The western mind, some say, sometimes can&#039;t grasp the easterner&#039;s ability to accept two opposing beliefs as equally valid. The Westerner says, &quot;It must be either-or.&quot; The easterner says, &quot;No, it can be both-and.&quot; So Ravi responded, &quot;So what you&#039;re saying is, I must use &lt;em&gt;either&lt;/em&gt; the either-or system &lt;em&gt;or&lt;/em&gt; the both-and system, isn&#039;t that right? And may I remind you that even in India, we must look both ways before crossing the street. It&#039;s either the bus, or me, not both of us.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I meant to address the last comment to Bob, not Ben.</p>
<p>One more note. Bob, you said, &#8220;Many Christians interpret Jesus’ words through our 21st century WESTERN eyes and use his words to make exclusive truth claims.&#8221;</p>
<p>To that I&#8217;d like to paraphrase Mr. Zacharias&#8217;s response to a similar objection. The western mind, some say, sometimes can&#8217;t grasp the easterner&#8217;s ability to accept two opposing beliefs as equally valid. The Westerner says, &#8220;It must be either-or.&#8221; The easterner says, &#8220;No, it can be both-and.&#8221; So Ravi responded, &#8220;So what you&#8217;re saying is, I must use <em>either</em> the either-or system <em>or</em> the both-and system, isn&#8217;t that right? And may I remind you that even in India, we must look both ways before crossing the street. It&#8217;s either the bus, or me, not both of us.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/emergent-bend/#comment-291</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-291</guid>
		<description>Interesting thoughts. I&#039;m concerned about current trends in the emergent church, and I highly recommend &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.newattitude.org/dl_dialog.php?filename=media/taylor_a_new_kind_of_christianity.mp3&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Justin Taylor&#039;s message&lt;/a&gt; from New Attitude on it. The trend to blend Christianity with &quot;other truths&quot; from other faiths, with a dose of new age thinking, I have a feeling will lead to the apostasy of the church of the last days.

Ben, I recommend you listen to messages from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rzim.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ravi Zacharias&lt;/a&gt;. Jesus claimed to be not just &quot;the Way&quot; in the sense that He taught &quot;the Way&quot; &lt;em&gt;of&lt;/em&gt; God, but that He was the Son, our only suitable sacrifice thus the only One who could atone for our sins. Did Mohammed die for our sins? Did Buddha? No. He said there is no salvation in any other, and to make an exclusive claim to truth is not the opposite of love (&quot;intolerance&quot;), but was the very heart of love. Truth, by definition, is exclusive. Either Jesus spoke truth and was the only way to God, or He wasn&#039;t, and we have no hope. But if He was, then the only loving thing He could say to those He reached out to, the poor, the tax collectors, prostitutes, etc. was the truth, that salvation and eternal joy could only be found in Him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting thoughts. I&#8217;m concerned about current trends in the emergent church, and I highly recommend <a href="http://www.newattitude.org/dl_dialog.php?filename=media/taylor_a_new_kind_of_christianity.mp3" rel="nofollow">Justin Taylor&#8217;s message</a> from New Attitude on it. The trend to blend Christianity with &#8220;other truths&#8221; from other faiths, with a dose of new age thinking, I have a feeling will lead to the apostasy of the church of the last days.</p>
<p>Ben, I recommend you listen to messages from <a href="http://www.rzim.org/" rel="nofollow">Ravi Zacharias</a>. Jesus claimed to be not just &#8220;the Way&#8221; in the sense that He taught &#8220;the Way&#8221; <em>of</em> God, but that He was the Son, our only suitable sacrifice thus the only One who could atone for our sins. Did Mohammed die for our sins? Did Buddha? No. He said there is no salvation in any other, and to make an exclusive claim to truth is not the opposite of love (&#8220;intolerance&#8221;), but was the very heart of love. Truth, by definition, is exclusive. Either Jesus spoke truth and was the only way to God, or He wasn&#8217;t, and we have no hope. But if He was, then the only loving thing He could say to those He reached out to, the poor, the tax collectors, prostitutes, etc. was the truth, that salvation and eternal joy could only be found in Him.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/emergent-bend/#comment-280</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 21:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-280</guid>
		<description>Ben, any chance you are free to meet up yet? Send me an email: bettger2@gmail.com. Granted I have sort of disengaged from this stream of commenting, but I would love to continue in person.
Looking forward to it, 
Nate</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, any chance you are free to meet up yet? Send me an email: <a href="mailto:bettger2@gmail.com">bettger2@gmail.com</a>. Granted I have sort of disengaged from this stream of commenting, but I would love to continue in person.<br />
Looking forward to it,<br />
Nate</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Dungan</title>
		<link>http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/emergent-bend/#comment-279</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Dungan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 07:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-279</guid>
		<description>@Bob

You referenced John 10:16 in your comment. Jesus is talking to the Pharisees here and its generally understood that he is speaking in the context of jews and gentiles (gentile being the other fold as in Rom 11). 

Jesus is not exclusionary in the sense that he does not prohibit anyone from following him. But the same Jesus also said:
&quot;go and sin no more&quot;, (to an adulteress) 
&quot;unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins&quot;, (to pharisees)
&quot;sell what you possess and give to the poor&quot;, (to a wealthy man)
&quot;you are of your father the devil&quot; (again to the pharisees)

So, yes, in certain contexts and instances jesus has required specific beliefs or behavior. Or, at the very least, the behavior should be the fruit of following Jesus. 

Bob, I would pose this (2-part) question to you ... in Matt 7, Jesus says:
&quot;Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’&quot;

a. what is the will of his father?
b. why does Jesus exclude these people who claim to follow him?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bob</p>
<p>You referenced John 10:16 in your comment. Jesus is talking to the Pharisees here and its generally understood that he is speaking in the context of jews and gentiles (gentile being the other fold as in Rom 11). </p>
<p>Jesus is not exclusionary in the sense that he does not prohibit anyone from following him. But the same Jesus also said:<br />
&#8220;go and sin no more&#8221;, (to an adulteress)<br />
&#8220;unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins&#8221;, (to pharisees)<br />
&#8220;sell what you possess and give to the poor&#8221;, (to a wealthy man)<br />
&#8220;you are of your father the devil&#8221; (again to the pharisees)</p>
<p>So, yes, in certain contexts and instances jesus has required specific beliefs or behavior. Or, at the very least, the behavior should be the fruit of following Jesus. </p>
<p>Bob, I would pose this (2-part) question to you &#8230; in Matt 7, Jesus says:<br />
&#8220;Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’&#8221;</p>
<p>a. what is the will of his father?<br />
b. why does Jesus exclude these people who claim to follow him?</p>
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		<title>By: bob Pearson</title>
		<link>http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/emergent-bend/#comment-278</link>
		<dc:creator>bob Pearson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 22:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-278</guid>
		<description>Ben,

The best response I can give is part of a sermon preached by our pastor at First Pres. last summer on the most difficult questions in the Christian Faith.

Our scripture passage today contains the single sentence that troubles more Christians than perhaps any other in the Bible. Jesus says, “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me.”

How could Jesus whose love was so inclusive say something so exclusive?
How could Jesus who went to parties with prostitutes and sinners draw such a rigid line in the sand? These words sound so uncharacteristic of Jesus.
There’s nothing in the life of Jesus that I recognize as rigid and exclusionary.

In fact, the life of Jesus embodied unconditional love, astonishing forgiveness, radical hospitality, and inclusiveness.

Yet, these words of Jesus from scripture have frequently been taken out of context to JUDGE others . . . these very words have been used to argue that Christians are right and all others wrong . . . that our faith is MORE true than the faith of others . . . our way is the ONLY way.
	
Many Christians interpret Jesus’ words through our 21st century WESTERN eyes and use his words to make exclusive truth claims.

Today, I want to put these words of Jesus in the context in which he actually spoke them and see if we might see these words in a new light.

The first thing to remember is that in this story Jesus is foremost trying to COMFORT the disciples He’s just eaten the Last Supper with them. He’s washed their feet and told them to do the same by serving each other.  He’s told them that one of them will betray him and Peter will deny him three times. He’s commanded them to love one another. Can you imagine the mood of the room after this?

And then he says to them, “But don’t worry. Trust God trust me. God has lots of room. And like a good host, I’m going to get your place ready for you. In fact, I’ll escort you there. Heck, in fact, you already know THE WAY.”

And, Thomas, Oh Thomas, ever a literalist always practical, Thomas fails to understand that this is more symbolic language than LITERAL and he says,
“I’m so confused. We don’t know where you are going. How can we know the way to get there?” It is to THIS question that Jesus gently says, “I AM THE WAY Thomas and the truth and the life.”

Consider the context for a minute. Is this the time you would imagine anyone, much less Jesus saying, “Hey, listen up fellas! I’m it! I’m the ONLY way! So you better believe in me exactly the way I want you to believe in me, or else. Anyone who doubts or questions or thinks anything else is done for! Got that?” I really don’t believe that’s the message Jesus was trying to convey here to them or to us.

The immediate context of his words, the setting of the story, the nature of Jesus’ life leads me to believe there’s another message at work.

It’s helpful and important to know that at the time the Gospel of John was written (many years after the death of Jesus), the fledgling Christian community was not known as “Christians.” They were known simply as “FOLLOWERS OF THE WAY.”  Jesus’ words here are not addressed to people of other religions or people with no religion. They are addressed to the PEOPLE OF THE WAY, the first disciples, the early church, those who would much later be called “Christian.”

The words of Jesus we heard today are not meant to be exclusive or to be used to judge or challenge other religions. The irony is these words are actually meant to challenge us – those of us who are already followers of Jesus – FOLLOWERS OF THE WAY.

And I want to suggest they challenge us in at least two ways – First, we are challenged not to water down or apologize for this message. As Christians, we are following a particular WAY, And don’t be mistaken – it is a RADICAL way. While I don’t believe we can or should claim that our way is better or more legitimate that other ways.

I also don’t think we can or should say that our Way doesn’t matter . . . 
We call ourselves Christians . . . those who follow Jesus . . . those who bear the name of Christ. (although it’s interesting the word Christian carries so much baggage – an emerging trend in churches is to avoid the word and simply use “Followers of Jesus!”

Presbyterian theologian, Shirley Guthrie, suggests that we ask ourselves who is this Jesus who says “I am the way.”

Guthrie says, “He is the One who also says in John 10.16, “I have other sheep that do not belong to the fold. I include them also. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.” Who is this Jesus who says, “I am the way?” 

He is the friend of the sinful, the friend of unbelieving, different – believing people, people who were constantly excluded and rejected by those in the religious establishment who assumed they had all the answers.

Who is this Jesus who says “I am the way?” He is the One who believed that caring for the needy and the suffering was far more important than conforming to the requirements of moral and theological orthodoxy.
Who was this Jesus who said, “I am the way?”

He is the One who didn’t ask his followers to believe six things about him before breakfast. There was no test. There was no doctrinal examination required. He simply invited people to walk with him . . . to follow him . . . to follow his way.

Professor Guthrie argues, “Christianity is our religion. It is our theological and our faith home. But to follow the way of Jesus is to be obligated to listen with respect to people of other faiths and learn the truth that they know.
In our evangelism, in our sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ. We are not to argue the superiority of our religion or the exclusivity of our truth, but we are to share what we have come to believe and trust and to be open to receive the same from the other.

How can anyone ever claim to know enough to be sure of the mind of God?
That’s why I begin every sermon with, “Startle us, O God!”

There was a theologian five centuries ago, Nicholas of Cusa whose big contribution to theology was the notion he called “learned ignorance.”
He wrote “God is the unknown infinite who dwells in light inaccessible and so God’s greatest gift to us is ‘to know that we do not know!’ Nothing more perfect comes to a person. To know that you do not know is the beginning of wisdom.”

At the very heart of our faith tradition is an intentional modesty and humility before the incomprehensibility and mystery of God, a clear confession that we know that we do not know. So, how can anyone possibly claim that Christianity offers the only way to God?

But what Christianity does offer unapologetically is Jesus – the One who said, “I am the way, the truth, the life.”

That man, Jesus, we trust, IS Truth – Not words about him, Not doctrines that attempt to explain him, Not churches that use his name, Not religious leaders that arrogantly claim to speak and act for him, But him, He, himself, is truth.

What does that mean?

Theologian Paul Tillich said, it means that Jesus, the true, the genuine, the ultimate reality is present; in other words, God is present, unveiled, revealed, in infinite depth.

As Christians, Jesus is our truth, and if we claim him as Savior, If we trust in him, if we follow him, if we listen to him because he is truth, We will not use our religion to exclude others, Because he didn’t. We will never use our religion to judge others, Because he didn’t. We will do everything we can to forgive and accept and extend compassion to our neighbors, to love our enemies, to welcome strangers, because this IS the way, the truth, the life he asked us to follow.

One of the unique aspects of truth we affirm in Jesus is that he is the only one who refers to God as Father – “No one comes to the Father except through me.” To the contrary of what many claim, I trust don’t believe, Jesus is being exclusive here as he is describing an intimate relationship with God that is possible.

Through Jesus, we’re introduced to a God, not distant, removed, untouchable, out there . . .But amazingly a God we can know and trust . . . a God we are told who knows us, forgives us, loves us unconditionally . . .
This love I have experienced in my life . . .

This love has turned my life upside-down and has given my life meaning and purpose. I want to share the joy and hope I know in Christ with others . . . I want to share the joy I know with you! But I never assume people of other religions know any less joy than I do; Their experience of God may certainly be different than mine but not inferior to my experience. And to be open to receive their joy may very well enhance the joy I know.

Everything I know and understand and experience is that God is an both/and kind of God not an either/or kind of God. We are the ones that insist on thing s being either/or. Conservative and liberal are not helpful labels. They are divisive – the real question is are we open or are we closed.

God’s love revealed in Jesus is larger, higher, broader, deeper than anything we can possibly imagine . . . as the Apostle Paul said, “May you grasp the love of Christ that is beyond knowledge.”

Jesus didn’t say you must believe these six things about me. He didn’t administer a test. He didn’t require you pass a doctrinal examination.

Unlike the Pharisees, he didn’t draw a line around himself to define who was “in” and who was “out.” He didn’t worry where you’ve been or what you struggle to believe – or not believe. Jesus simply said, “Follow me!”
Imagine, just imagine, what the world might look like if we, the church, spent less time arguing about what we believe, about who’s right and who’s wrong, what’s in and what’s out, and we seriously set ourselves in this new year to the task of passionately following the way of Jesus – Passionately giving our hearts to the radical love we know in Christ – Follow me . . . Follow this way, Jesus said, And you will find life- Real life- Full life- Meaningful life - A life filled with God’s everlasting, incomprehensible love!

Thanks be to God!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,</p>
<p>The best response I can give is part of a sermon preached by our pastor at First Pres. last summer on the most difficult questions in the Christian Faith.</p>
<p>Our scripture passage today contains the single sentence that troubles more Christians than perhaps any other in the Bible. Jesus says, “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me.”</p>
<p>How could Jesus whose love was so inclusive say something so exclusive?<br />
How could Jesus who went to parties with prostitutes and sinners draw such a rigid line in the sand? These words sound so uncharacteristic of Jesus.<br />
There’s nothing in the life of Jesus that I recognize as rigid and exclusionary.</p>
<p>In fact, the life of Jesus embodied unconditional love, astonishing forgiveness, radical hospitality, and inclusiveness.</p>
<p>Yet, these words of Jesus from scripture have frequently been taken out of context to JUDGE others . . . these very words have been used to argue that Christians are right and all others wrong . . . that our faith is MORE true than the faith of others . . . our way is the ONLY way.</p>
<p>Many Christians interpret Jesus’ words through our 21st century WESTERN eyes and use his words to make exclusive truth claims.</p>
<p>Today, I want to put these words of Jesus in the context in which he actually spoke them and see if we might see these words in a new light.</p>
<p>The first thing to remember is that in this story Jesus is foremost trying to COMFORT the disciples He’s just eaten the Last Supper with them. He’s washed their feet and told them to do the same by serving each other.  He’s told them that one of them will betray him and Peter will deny him three times. He’s commanded them to love one another. Can you imagine the mood of the room after this?</p>
<p>And then he says to them, “But don’t worry. Trust God trust me. God has lots of room. And like a good host, I’m going to get your place ready for you. In fact, I’ll escort you there. Heck, in fact, you already know THE WAY.”</p>
<p>And, Thomas, Oh Thomas, ever a literalist always practical, Thomas fails to understand that this is more symbolic language than LITERAL and he says,<br />
“I’m so confused. We don’t know where you are going. How can we know the way to get there?” It is to THIS question that Jesus gently says, “I AM THE WAY Thomas and the truth and the life.”</p>
<p>Consider the context for a minute. Is this the time you would imagine anyone, much less Jesus saying, “Hey, listen up fellas! I’m it! I’m the ONLY way! So you better believe in me exactly the way I want you to believe in me, or else. Anyone who doubts or questions or thinks anything else is done for! Got that?” I really don’t believe that’s the message Jesus was trying to convey here to them or to us.</p>
<p>The immediate context of his words, the setting of the story, the nature of Jesus’ life leads me to believe there’s another message at work.</p>
<p>It’s helpful and important to know that at the time the Gospel of John was written (many years after the death of Jesus), the fledgling Christian community was not known as “Christians.” They were known simply as “FOLLOWERS OF THE WAY.”  Jesus’ words here are not addressed to people of other religions or people with no religion. They are addressed to the PEOPLE OF THE WAY, the first disciples, the early church, those who would much later be called “Christian.”</p>
<p>The words of Jesus we heard today are not meant to be exclusive or to be used to judge or challenge other religions. The irony is these words are actually meant to challenge us – those of us who are already followers of Jesus – FOLLOWERS OF THE WAY.</p>
<p>And I want to suggest they challenge us in at least two ways – First, we are challenged not to water down or apologize for this message. As Christians, we are following a particular WAY, And don’t be mistaken – it is a RADICAL way. While I don’t believe we can or should claim that our way is better or more legitimate that other ways.</p>
<p>I also don’t think we can or should say that our Way doesn’t matter . . .<br />
We call ourselves Christians . . . those who follow Jesus . . . those who bear the name of Christ. (although it’s interesting the word Christian carries so much baggage – an emerging trend in churches is to avoid the word and simply use “Followers of Jesus!”</p>
<p>Presbyterian theologian, Shirley Guthrie, suggests that we ask ourselves who is this Jesus who says “I am the way.”</p>
<p>Guthrie says, “He is the One who also says in John 10.16, “I have other sheep that do not belong to the fold. I include them also. So there will be one flock, one shepherd.” Who is this Jesus who says, “I am the way?” </p>
<p>He is the friend of the sinful, the friend of unbelieving, different – believing people, people who were constantly excluded and rejected by those in the religious establishment who assumed they had all the answers.</p>
<p>Who is this Jesus who says “I am the way?” He is the One who believed that caring for the needy and the suffering was far more important than conforming to the requirements of moral and theological orthodoxy.<br />
Who was this Jesus who said, “I am the way?”</p>
<p>He is the One who didn’t ask his followers to believe six things about him before breakfast. There was no test. There was no doctrinal examination required. He simply invited people to walk with him . . . to follow him . . . to follow his way.</p>
<p>Professor Guthrie argues, “Christianity is our religion. It is our theological and our faith home. But to follow the way of Jesus is to be obligated to listen with respect to people of other faiths and learn the truth that they know.<br />
In our evangelism, in our sharing the Good News of Jesus Christ. We are not to argue the superiority of our religion or the exclusivity of our truth, but we are to share what we have come to believe and trust and to be open to receive the same from the other.</p>
<p>How can anyone ever claim to know enough to be sure of the mind of God?<br />
That’s why I begin every sermon with, “Startle us, O God!”</p>
<p>There was a theologian five centuries ago, Nicholas of Cusa whose big contribution to theology was the notion he called “learned ignorance.”<br />
He wrote “God is the unknown infinite who dwells in light inaccessible and so God’s greatest gift to us is ‘to know that we do not know!’ Nothing more perfect comes to a person. To know that you do not know is the beginning of wisdom.”</p>
<p>At the very heart of our faith tradition is an intentional modesty and humility before the incomprehensibility and mystery of God, a clear confession that we know that we do not know. So, how can anyone possibly claim that Christianity offers the only way to God?</p>
<p>But what Christianity does offer unapologetically is Jesus – the One who said, “I am the way, the truth, the life.”</p>
<p>That man, Jesus, we trust, IS Truth – Not words about him, Not doctrines that attempt to explain him, Not churches that use his name, Not religious leaders that arrogantly claim to speak and act for him, But him, He, himself, is truth.</p>
<p>What does that mean?</p>
<p>Theologian Paul Tillich said, it means that Jesus, the true, the genuine, the ultimate reality is present; in other words, God is present, unveiled, revealed, in infinite depth.</p>
<p>As Christians, Jesus is our truth, and if we claim him as Savior, If we trust in him, if we follow him, if we listen to him because he is truth, We will not use our religion to exclude others, Because he didn’t. We will never use our religion to judge others, Because he didn’t. We will do everything we can to forgive and accept and extend compassion to our neighbors, to love our enemies, to welcome strangers, because this IS the way, the truth, the life he asked us to follow.</p>
<p>One of the unique aspects of truth we affirm in Jesus is that he is the only one who refers to God as Father – “No one comes to the Father except through me.” To the contrary of what many claim, I trust don’t believe, Jesus is being exclusive here as he is describing an intimate relationship with God that is possible.</p>
<p>Through Jesus, we’re introduced to a God, not distant, removed, untouchable, out there . . .But amazingly a God we can know and trust . . . a God we are told who knows us, forgives us, loves us unconditionally . . .<br />
This love I have experienced in my life . . .</p>
<p>This love has turned my life upside-down and has given my life meaning and purpose. I want to share the joy and hope I know in Christ with others . . . I want to share the joy I know with you! But I never assume people of other religions know any less joy than I do; Their experience of God may certainly be different than mine but not inferior to my experience. And to be open to receive their joy may very well enhance the joy I know.</p>
<p>Everything I know and understand and experience is that God is an both/and kind of God not an either/or kind of God. We are the ones that insist on thing s being either/or. Conservative and liberal are not helpful labels. They are divisive – the real question is are we open or are we closed.</p>
<p>God’s love revealed in Jesus is larger, higher, broader, deeper than anything we can possibly imagine . . . as the Apostle Paul said, “May you grasp the love of Christ that is beyond knowledge.”</p>
<p>Jesus didn’t say you must believe these six things about me. He didn’t administer a test. He didn’t require you pass a doctrinal examination.</p>
<p>Unlike the Pharisees, he didn’t draw a line around himself to define who was “in” and who was “out.” He didn’t worry where you’ve been or what you struggle to believe – or not believe. Jesus simply said, “Follow me!”<br />
Imagine, just imagine, what the world might look like if we, the church, spent less time arguing about what we believe, about who’s right and who’s wrong, what’s in and what’s out, and we seriously set ourselves in this new year to the task of passionately following the way of Jesus – Passionately giving our hearts to the radical love we know in Christ – Follow me . . . Follow this way, Jesus said, And you will find life- Real life- Full life- Meaningful life &#8211; A life filled with God’s everlasting, incomprehensible love!</p>
<p>Thanks be to God!</p>
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		<title>By: benbronson</title>
		<link>http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/emergent-bend/#comment-277</link>
		<dc:creator>benbronson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-277</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn014.html#6&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John 14:6&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Jhn/Jhn014.html#6" rel="nofollow">John 14:6</a></p>
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		<title>By: bob Pearson</title>
		<link>http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/emergent-bend/#comment-276</link>
		<dc:creator>bob Pearson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 14:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-276</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s see.  Jesus is God.  Part of the Trinity.  Can&#039;t some people relate more, understand more, love more, or believe more to God the Father, or God the Spirit, than God the Son?  It is still all God.  It was always about God for Jesus.  Jesus is the way to God because he is God.  Jesus is the embodiment of what God looks like in human flesh.  What is wrong with knowing God through God directly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s see.  Jesus is God.  Part of the Trinity.  Can&#8217;t some people relate more, understand more, love more, or believe more to God the Father, or God the Spirit, than God the Son?  It is still all God.  It was always about God for Jesus.  Jesus is the way to God because he is God.  Jesus is the embodiment of what God looks like in human flesh.  What is wrong with knowing God through God directly?</p>
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		<title>By: benbronson</title>
		<link>http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/emergent-bend/#comment-275</link>
		<dc:creator>benbronson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:41:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-275</guid>
		<description>Thanks to all for the comments and feedback.  I apologize if I had been too general in my first post, but hopefully there will be more clarity and detail in these comments.  I thought I added a little more clarity in my comment above, but I&#039;ll give you another instance that troubled me that night.

Doug Pagitt shared about how he came to the Lord.  It was at a passion play in an old converted theatre.  After realizing his need for Jesus, he went into a back room to speak with a counselor about this need.  Once in the back room, his attention was brought to a book (&quot;Steps to Peace with God&quot; I believe) that he had a great disagreement with.  Remember the picture he showed us that night?  Let me refresh your memory (and inform those of you who weren&#039;t in attendance).  

On one side of a great rift was a man.  On the other side of this great rift was God.  Separation.  Man can&#039;t reach God.  He can&#039;t jump the fissure, can&#039;t fly over it to meet God.  He is helpless.  The next image Doug showed us was this same picture, but now with a cross forming the bridge between man and God.  Man is no longer separated by God, because He has access to God by the cross of Jesus Christ.  Good news!  But wait!  Doug didn&#039;t agree with that illustration.  No, he took the next several minutes to argue how this illustration didn&#039;t line up with his experience.  He argued that he never felt far from God, but uncomfortably close.  Huh?  If you were uncomfortably close to God, what do you need Jesus for?  If you don&#039;t need Jesus to bridge that gap, why did you go to the back room to speak with a counselor?  

Doesn&#039;t the bible teach us that man has been separated from God as a result of sin (&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen003.html#22&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Gen. 3:22-24;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Eph&amp;chapter=2&amp;version=NKJV#13&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Eph. 2:13-19&lt;/a&gt;).  And really, why do we need Jesus, since (according to Pagitt) &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0isqLRhClo&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;God &quot;interacts&quot; the same with us&lt;/a&gt;, no matter what or who we believe in?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks to all for the comments and feedback.  I apologize if I had been too general in my first post, but hopefully there will be more clarity and detail in these comments.  I thought I added a little more clarity in my comment above, but I&#8217;ll give you another instance that troubled me that night.</p>
<p>Doug Pagitt shared about how he came to the Lord.  It was at a passion play in an old converted theatre.  After realizing his need for Jesus, he went into a back room to speak with a counselor about this need.  Once in the back room, his attention was brought to a book (&#8220;Steps to Peace with God&#8221; I believe) that he had a great disagreement with.  Remember the picture he showed us that night?  Let me refresh your memory (and inform those of you who weren&#8217;t in attendance).  </p>
<p>On one side of a great rift was a man.  On the other side of this great rift was God.  Separation.  Man can&#8217;t reach God.  He can&#8217;t jump the fissure, can&#8217;t fly over it to meet God.  He is helpless.  The next image Doug showed us was this same picture, but now with a cross forming the bridge between man and God.  Man is no longer separated by God, because He has access to God by the cross of Jesus Christ.  Good news!  But wait!  Doug didn&#8217;t agree with that illustration.  No, he took the next several minutes to argue how this illustration didn&#8217;t line up with his experience.  He argued that he never felt far from God, but uncomfortably close.  Huh?  If you were uncomfortably close to God, what do you need Jesus for?  If you don&#8217;t need Jesus to bridge that gap, why did you go to the back room to speak with a counselor?  </p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t the bible teach us that man has been separated from God as a result of sin (<a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen003.html#22" rel="nofollow">Gen. 3:22-24;</a><a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Eph&amp;chapter=2&amp;version=NKJV#13" rel="nofollow">Eph. 2:13-19</a>).  And really, why do we need Jesus, since (according to Pagitt) <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0isqLRhClo" rel="nofollow">God &#8220;interacts&#8221; the same with us</a>, no matter what or who we believe in?</p>
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		<title>By: Erik Dungan</title>
		<link>http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/emergent-bend/#comment-274</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik Dungan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 04:57:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-274</guid>
		<description>Interesting. I didn&#039;t know there was much of an emergent movement in Bend–I guess I haven&#039;t lived here long enough. One of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.marshillchurch.org/sermonseries/religionsaves/week_08.aspx&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;better sermons on the emergent movement&lt;/a&gt; I&#039;ve heard recently is from Mark Driscoll. 

@Greg, I&#039;m curious what specifically about the Bible you do not find infallible. Perhaps it depends on your &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infallible&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;definition&lt;/a&gt; of the term, but I&#039;ve always seen belief in the truth, reliability, and authority of scripture as a cornerstone of Christian doctrine. Without it, things seem to unravel. Is it that the human authors are fallible? That truth or details were lost in translation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. I didn&#8217;t know there was much of an emergent movement in Bend–I guess I haven&#8217;t lived here long enough. One of the <a href="http://www.marshillchurch.org/sermonseries/religionsaves/week_08.aspx" rel="nofollow">better sermons on the emergent movement</a> I&#8217;ve heard recently is from Mark Driscoll. </p>
<p>@Greg, I&#8217;m curious what specifically about the Bible you do not find infallible. Perhaps it depends on your <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infallible" rel="nofollow">definition</a> of the term, but I&#8217;ve always seen belief in the truth, reliability, and authority of scripture as a cornerstone of Christian doctrine. Without it, things seem to unravel. Is it that the human authors are fallible? That truth or details were lost in translation?</p>
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		<title>By: steve</title>
		<link>http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/emergent-bend/#comment-273</link>
		<dc:creator>steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 19:26:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ezekielblog.wordpress.com/?p=87#comment-273</guid>
		<description>I went to the road show with a couple of my friends from &quot;Journey&quot; a Sunday night gathering of young adults at New Hope Church.  Personally, I almost walked out.  Not because of the content mind you, I just can&#039;t get into the vaudeville thing.  Most of the young adults we were with did like it though, so i kept my mouth shut.  I wasn&#039;t sure what to expect when I got there, but the thing that dissapointed me the most was the pimping of their books.  I personally would have liked it better if they would have said &quot;hey we&#039;re having a meeting regarding our thoughts and beliefs on the &quot;emergent&quot; movement.  That&#039;s just me though.  Some people like that kind of stuff. I think the traditional church could learn alot from a movement &quot;emerging, emergent whatever you want to call it) that believes in going out to the people, rather than putting up programs to draw people in. If they came away from the &quot;revival&quot; feeling touched by the spirit...then &quot;God be praised&quot;  &quot;Alleluia brother!&quot;  
Have a great Spirit filled day!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I went to the road show with a couple of my friends from &#8220;Journey&#8221; a Sunday night gathering of young adults at New Hope Church.  Personally, I almost walked out.  Not because of the content mind you, I just can&#8217;t get into the vaudeville thing.  Most of the young adults we were with did like it though, so i kept my mouth shut.  I wasn&#8217;t sure what to expect when I got there, but the thing that dissapointed me the most was the pimping of their books.  I personally would have liked it better if they would have said &#8220;hey we&#8217;re having a meeting regarding our thoughts and beliefs on the &#8220;emergent&#8221; movement.  That&#8217;s just me though.  Some people like that kind of stuff. I think the traditional church could learn alot from a movement &#8220;emerging, emergent whatever you want to call it) that believes in going out to the people, rather than putting up programs to draw people in. If they came away from the &#8220;revival&#8221; feeling touched by the spirit&#8230;then &#8220;God be praised&#8221;  &#8220;Alleluia brother!&#8221;<br />
Have a great Spirit filled day!</p>
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